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A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Jeremy: Alicia only leaves
bits at the beginning here
if they're humiliating to me.
Bre: Such an enthusiast.
Jeremy: And somehow I know that
line will make it into the edit.
Ben: I had a big realization about King
Kong recently, because I was thinking
like, damn, like, everything about
Godzilla says so much about, like, Japan
and history and has these deep themes.
given that it's apparently our resident,
like, mascot, big fighting animal,
Emily: Yeah, our kiaju
Ben: shame Kong isn't
anything uniquely American.
And then I realized, hmm, hold on.
This is a movie where a rich dude, goes
to a place he's not supposed to be.
Takes a sentient being out of its home,
turns it into a grotesque spectacle, does
great violence to it, and then at the
end blames a woman for his own crimes.
Bre: Deeply
Ben: might the most American movie.
Emily: Let's keep that one, I'm
gonna keep that one in the show.
Jeremy: All right,
Ben: That one I'll stand by,
that one can go in an episode.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: I mean that's a
whole episode all by itself.
Just, cut it right there.
You guys want to talk about Skinamarink?
Ben: Kinda.
Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast
where we all hoard to progressive
standards that never agreed to.
Tonight we're talking about
the weird viral horror thing
that took early 2023 by storm.
Skinnamarink.
I am your host, Jeremy Whitley,
and with me I have a panel
of cinephiles and cnobites.
First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire
binary, my co host Ben Kahn.
Ben, how are you after this?
Ben: This, movie really reminds me of
college film courses that I did bad in.
Jeremy: I mean, I don't know if you
mean grades wise or emotionally,
but I feel either is applicable.
Ben: yeah!
You know, really just any of those English
major where it's like, what does it mean?
And I'm like, I don't know that,
Jeremy: Just me and Jack
Skellington watching this movie.
Ben: It's the creator had
like, 10k to make a movie?
Bre: Impressive.
Jeremy: a very expensive door.
Ben: that there's a really
good 12 minute short that's
extended to 10 times that length?
Jeremy: Yes.
And the cinnamon roll of Cenobites,
our co host, Emily Martin.
How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily: you know, I like weird shit,
right, but I appreciate it when there's
Jeremy: We're aware.
Emily: a subject, like
there's a, through line here,
Jeremy: A house of a wolf, perhaps.
Emily: yeah, wolf house had
stuff happening there was
stuff happening constantly.
Ben: This movie made me long
for the days of Wolf House.
Emily: Yeah, that was weird.
but at least there was
shit happening throughout
Ben: Yeah, we got...
we got some wonderful folks to introduce.
Jeremy: Yeah, two guests
tonight, two very good friends
and collaborators of the podcast.
But first, my artist on the Dog Night
series, as well as the artists of the
Hidden Graphic Novels, Meg, Joe, Beth, and
Amy, and Northranger, it's Brie Indigo!
Brie!
Welcome!
Bre: It's good to be here.
I missed you guys.
Ben: Woo, woo, woo!
Emily: It's so great to have you
back.
I'm almost sorry
that this is the movie.
Bre: It's okay.
I chose it.
Emily: Oh Nice okay.
Jeremy: Yeah, I put it out
there, and this was the one that
Brie was like, yes, that one.
and fellow podcaster, the host of
Talking Comics, and my sometime
Fortnite teammate, Steve Say.
Welcome, Steve!
Steve: Thank you so much.
I'm just going to put it out there
now that regardless of anything
that I say this episode, I want
Sharon, Lois, and Bram to know that
I still love and appreciate them.
Emily: Oh same
Um, I love them in the
morning and in the afternoon.
Steve: I love them in the
evening and underneath the
Emily: the moon.
Yeah.
Steve: I had a hard time with this one.
Jeremy: I mean we do have, first time
feature director, Kyle Edward Ball.
Uh, He also wrote it, he also edited it.
That I think is very clear
from watching it that it's the
same person doing all three.
Stars, in big quotation marks Uh,
Lucas Paul, Dolly Rose, Tetralt,
Ross Paul, and Jamie Hill, Mostly
just their socks, honestly.
it's a weird one.
but yeah, let's, uh, get into it, I guess.
Ben: while I'm not going to be the
kindest to this movie, One thing I do
want to give it straight out the gate.
15, 000 budget.
2.
1 million at the box office.
That is an insane return on investment.
Good on this movie.
Whatever we say, this movie
fucking made its bank back.
Good on this.
I appreciate what the director was doing.
I appreciate the commitment to the
style, to the idea, to the execution.
This movie had no fucking business
being an hour and forty minutes long.
Emily: Fucking serious.
Jeremy: yeah, I will say this for it,
as much as I will question a lot of
things about this movie, the sound
editing in this movie fucking insane.
Ben: Yes.
Steve: Yeah, that is one
of the highlights for sure.
Jeremy: The way that things sound in
this is so spooky, like, that literally
I could be falling asleep one minute
and then it would make me jump is wild.
I had to make a new cup of coffee
to make it through this film.
Ben: So much of what does work in
this movie is the audio, because so
much of the visuals is, Wait, I'm
not even sure what I'm looking at.
Is something creepy happening?
I can't even tell if there's something
here that is supposed to be creepy.
And also, the only way it gets to its
runtime is every single shot is minimum
25 seconds longer than it has to be.
Steve: Yeah, big time.
Emily: It's so art school.
Like, the teacher's like, okay,
we want to avoid being literal.
Okay,
Bre: well, see, I appreciate that it
was different, because I'm, I'm just
hungry for someone to say, Hey, I have
a vision and I'm going to go with it.
And so I respect it on all parts for that.
The only thing for me that like I
didn't dig is because like, yeah, it
was a bit longer than it needed to be.
And in the end, the sense of relief
that I got was less about like, Oh God,
I'm so glad I'm not scared anymore.
It was more like, Oh, thank God it's over.
that sucks because I didn't
want to feel that way.
Emily: Yeah,
Bre: the biggest irritant to
me was the fake film grain.
Steve: Yeah.
Emily: yes.
Bre: I could see the pattern.
I could see it
Steve: Yeah,
Emily: same
Steve: the overlay was thick.
Ben: especially because it's
not a found footage movie,
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: I don't know.
Steve: It takes place in 1995.
Jeremy: If it were a found
footage movie, who is filming?
I don't,
Emily: Right?
It takes place in 1995.
it's supposed to be POV.
Ben: and if it's a POV, why
do they have VHS vision?
Emily: Well, it's not even VHS vision!
It's
Bre: are the cameras
in the weirdest, worst
Steve: Oh my god, every shot, like 90
percent of this movie, they're either
filming the ceiling or the floor or Legos.
Emily: Yeah, well, that's the thing.
It's that they're trying
to avoid the subject.
Bre: yeah,
Ben: Legos on the Floor?
Well we gotta dedicate at least
50 seconds to that uninterrupted.
Steve: Duplos in there just
to make it interesting.
Emily: just the difference of texture.
Bre: I was watching it with a friend
who's like a, Is the word cinephile
where like they're really into movies?
great.
But like as soon as we started the movie,
they're like, Oh, the darkness, isn't it?
So amazing.
Like you can see like shapes in it.
And I'm like, Oh, I'm I'm
looking the whole time and
I'm like, I don't see shapes.
Like, it would be if there were
shapes in the darkness, but I saw any.
Ben: kept like, oh, it's like, When I,
like, rub my eyes, and then there's,
like, splotches from that, I'm like,
I think there's something, but I don't
even know what I'm looking at in the
first place to even be creeped out.
Steve: I
did a lot of squinting as I watched
this movie on those long shots of just
a dark corner somewhere, and I would
like, try to like, shut my eyes a
little bit, leaning into my monitor,
like, Is there something there?
And, to a degree, I can appreciate
that, but after about the 17th
time that nothing came out of the
shadows, I was like, alright, now
you're just, like,
leaving the camera on, you're trying to
Kubrick this thing, and I don't know.
Ben: that's the thing, even when
something is happening, it goes
on for so long that I'm like, I've
gone from like, ooh, what is that?
Like, ooh, I'm creeped out.
Okay, it's still going.
I don't even care anymore.
Jeremy: I, can't begin to comprehend
the editing of this film, but
like, there are some, bits.
I will say when things happen in
this movie, it is occasionally scary.
Ben: Absolutely.
Jeremy: I know Ben is supposed
to do the recap on this, but
there's not a ton to recap that is
Ben: want me I can do the reca- I can.
Here, I can do the recap super fast.
Kevin hit his head.
Dad brings him back from the hospital.
But then Dad disappears.
Doors and windows also disappear.
Toilets
Steve: they, though?
Emily: Yeah, well, there's a
bunch of doors still, which,
Steve: Yeah, we'll get to that.
Anyway, I'm sorry, Ben.
Go ahead.
Ben: Voice is like, hey, come
upstairs, look under the bed.
Kaylee is like Nah, you creepy,
mom and dad up here, question mark,
something something, Kaylee got no
face, Kevin stabs his eye, voice is
like, I'm a voice, I'm a reality warper,
darkness, something, something, the end.
Bre: This is definitely one of those
movies that I went, am I just not good at
watching movies or is it not done well?
one of the things about the darkness
I wanted to say before we move on is
that like, I can appreciate that it was
maybe an immersive tactic because when
you were that young, like I remember
having that fear of the dark and
staring into it and expecting to see
something and then nothing ever happens.
But then, You know, when it's
done over and over again, it
just kind of, it dulls that.
The plot I couldn't follow.
I was asking, like, hey,
is the dad in the house?
Did he leave?
Wait, where are we?
Where are the kids?
Because we don't see anyone.
Like, we don't ever
see anyone except feet.
I'm not going to go in on any
theories that I read, but even
Ben: No, I don't care enough about
this movie to get into the lore
Bre: I wanted to make sure I came
in and, like, I at least tried
to process, the themes and stuff.
But even so, like, all the
theories, none of them were strong
enough for the entire movie.
There were theories that, like, either
a part of the movie worked with,
but then something contradicted it.
Emily: there's no payoff.
Bre: At all.
Emily: There's no payoff whatsoever.
Like, there's a couple creepy
things, a couple creepy images
that, are lingered on, like, either
not lingered on enough, because we
don't even see what's happening, or
they're lingered on too much, like
the repeating blood splatter thing.
Ben: Yeah, that's a great thing of like,
oh man, this is creepy the first time,
second time okay, by the fifth
time, I don't care anymore.
Jeremy: the scene where, like, the
voice is talking to the boy and you,
like, it's been saying just like,
go here, do this, whatever, and then
it's like, put the knife in your eye.
It's like, that's genuinely, like, creepy.
And then hearing him scream from
the other side of the house.
I will say this for this movie,
if you are a parent, this movie
will both bore and bother you.
Like, you'll come out of this
both bothered by the, not
graphic content, but like,
content that's aimed toward violence at
children and bad things happening to kids.
but also it's still boring.
Ben: if you don't have kids, this movie
will probably both bore and bother
Emily: yeah, I mean, on levels, because,
like, we were talking about the darkness.
Ben: 529 days, I don't know what that
is aside from a Kingdom Hearts game.
Emily: yeah, that's it's
more than a kingdom.
It's like 3 kingdom
hearts games that are bad.
Steve: was good.
Emily: But There's this 8 millimeter film
grain added to, and it's not a VHS grain.
and that's 1 thing that bothers me,
the 1 thing about analog horror that
I think is really Precious when I see,
like, current, like, young people and
blossom because, like, there's a lot
of young people out there that are,
like, 18 and they're making these
incredible analog horror videos.
And I really appreciate
That they are into it.
And then they, they appreciate
the analog aesthetic.
That's awesome.
But VHS and 8 millimeter
are different things.
And the 8 millimeter is very obviously
an 8 millimeter filter, because
again, we can see the pattern.
We can see the repeating pattern.
Bre: And it's too sharp.
Emily: It's too sharp.
Bre: too sharp.
Emily: The pattern is too sharp
compared to the actual content.
Which, if you were going to put
a pattern in there and then have
like some weird subliminal shit
going on, that would be dope.
Like, I
Ben: It's not, it's not great
when the thing that's supposed to
make your footage look old timey
is the most HD part of the scene.
Bre: Ha
Emily: Yeah, and it's, and that's
another thing is nobody was filming
a millimeter in the fucking 90s.
Like, that's the 70s.
Like, this is like, you got the 70s and
I've seen people do this a lot where
they're like, I'm making it look old.
So I'm putting this green and
this green on it and I'm like,
these are two different media.
Steve: I can appreciate going for
a specific style because clearly
that's what's happening here, but to
layer so much on top that it makes
things indiscernible, like, like I
said, like peering into the darkness
that only freaks me out for so long.
There's only so many times because If
you don't scare me with something by,
like, the fourth time that you do it,
I'm not anticipating anything at all.
That's usually when you pull
something, and other than, like, an
audio cue every now and again of,
like, a sudden blast to your ears,
there wasn't anything that I saw.
Like, I,
Jeremy: one visual moment the moment
where like she's just seen her mom
and dad on the Bed and she's looking
at the closet and you're looking at
the closet and you're looking at the
closet And then the arm comes out and
it you know goes to a different scene
Steve: the
Jeremy: and then the one where we
Ben: our big, I mean, our big movie
ender image is like, it's a face,
Emily: Question mark.
Ben: kinda.
Yeah,
Bre: didn't get it.
Steve: the only shot that, like,
I wouldn't say that it got me, but
that I thought was a cool shot, and I
mean, there's, there's a lot of, like,
pretty darkness and then, like, light
at the end of the hallway shots in
this, there's a lot of that stuff, but
the one shot of, I think it's Kaylee,
you see the back of her head for,
like, a good minute and ten seconds.
And it's got this, um, almost
like blue filter over it to make
it look like aged and ashen.
That was neat.
I'll be honest, like, I started
watching this last night.
I made it about 10, 20
minutes in and hard quit.
I was just
Bre: Oh,
Steve: I can't, I can't, I
can't do this.
I felt, I felt like I was sold
a different movie when I Read
the synopsis and signed on
Bre: Yes, all the synopsis and theories
made me go, Oh, that would have been a
Steve: right like when you sent that when
you sent the thing out I said to myself.
I'm like, I always do movies that I
know or want to watch again Let me do
something this time that I've never
seen don't know anything about I'm
gonna go into it blind And I saw the
synopsis was like a few sentences.
I'll be alright.
I'll read that and then I
went into the movie and like,
there are doors everywhere.
There are windows everywhere.
I'm like, oh, you know, kids
stuck in a house and all the exits
disappear and the father disappears
too and now they're alone and
there's a boogeyman in the house.
That sounds amazing.
Like, let's, let's do this.
And then I walked into what this
movie is and I just went, oh my God.
Bre: I feel like if we, if this
was found footage and I was the
person who found it, I would be
like, Oh, this is a bunch of trash.
No one, I would be like, I just, it's
just record over the VHS or whatever.
Because the visuals didn't tell a
story and neither did the dialogue.
And so I'm literally just
going in there going, uh huh.
Ben: is now making me realize, like,
did anyone ever try to defeat the
ring by just, like, taping over
that tape with, like, Judge Judy?
Emily: Right?
Right?
Well, and, and I've had moments like this.
I've had moments where I mean, I get
where they're coming from because I've
had moments where I've been watching
shit and I'm like, what the fuck is this?
What is happening?
Like, I once found a, uh, it was like
a, a late night science channel thing.
And it looked like it was footage
from some kind of experiment.
And it had like a weird, it was very,
very grainy and very close up and then
I would hear like there were NASA's The
communications going back and forth and
it was just really, really fucking weird.
It was very, very analog
horror, but, you know,
Jeremy: Emily, did you watch Videodrone?
Is that what you were watching?
Is the channel Videodrone?
Emily: that's a different channel.
That was a different thing.
Video Drone has things happening.
This was just like something
I couldn't really tell.
It was, it was very like
David Lynch, like, you know,
Bre: This felt like the children were
playing with the camcorder, left it
recording on the floor multiple times,
wasting tape, and then just were like,
like, afraid of the dark, and then
the little brother was making voices.
Steve: like, when the most eventful thing
that happens in a scene is a stuffed
animal gets pulled out of the corner of
the frame, and that's you sat there for
like, 95 seconds waiting for something
to happen, and then somebody picks up
a Duplo, and then we're back in the
hallway, staring at the ceiling, and
just focusing in on like, a lampshade,
or or a pole
Ben: is that, like, Even when something
that I think is supposed to be, like,
creepy and otherworldly happens, like,
there is already so nothing in it
that I never even know if what we're
watching is surreal or otherworldly.
Like I said, the toy gets dragged,
I'm like, oh, is that, is there
like an unseen force in the house?
Or is the little girl just fucking
pulling on her stuffed animal and
we don't see the little girl because
we never see the little girl?
Emily: yeah.
Bre: Okay.
When in comics, when you want something
to like, or in any media, if you want it
to be aware that something is changing,
you have to show it in the first place.
And it just, I never feel like I
was following any chronological
info at all, at any point.
I was just like, are these out of order?
What's happening?
Ben: almost never knew what I was
looking at well enough to then
know if something is changing,
or going wrong, or being creepy.
The one moment that worked, the one
moment that I really did like, is when
like, eyes just appear, and then like,
it flies to like, the phone toy, and then
the phone toy like, changes its face,
Jeremy: Fuck those fucking phone toys.
I hate those things.
Like, they're so creepy
just to begin with.
The moment that showed up, I
was like, oh fuck, they're gonna
do something
with that
Ben: bit
of like, actual editing,
and visual fuckery.
I'm like, and that it was fast, that it
was quick, that it was, that it wasn't,
like, and then the phone changes face.
And we just linger on that face
for another 40 seconds, like, that
it, for once, it didn't do that.
Emily: Yeah.
I, I've, but I've seen this on YouTube
and it was, you know, I've seen these
things and they're like so much better.
Like, there's a, there's
a video on YouTube.
Ben: There's
Emily: so much better on YouTube,
Ben: a,
there is a twe there is a really
good 12 minute horror film, YouTube
Bre: about to say it.
Yeah, right.
I mean it could have really been
pulled off as a really good short
Again, I think that maybe it
still needed some other polishing.
I wanted to ask Do we want to talk about
any of the theories because I obviously
we
Steve: I I would love to hear
Ben: Yeah, no, you know, I, no, I'm
sorry, I am sorry for being rude and
dismissive about the theories earlier,
that was me trying to be jackass towards
movie, but I realized it probably came
out as me jackass towards theories on
your research, and I do apologize for
Bre: oh no, you're fine.
I just was like, okay anyone
listening to this and be like, okay,
we get it You guys hate the movie.
Can we talk?
Jeremy: Yeah,
Ben: yes, no, theory corner, hell
Jeremy: just, just going into, like,
that stuff for me, the, the one thing
before, like, full on theories is that
the feeling that this movie gave me, more
than anything, was something that I, I
used to be very well acquainted with,
which is, it feels like Having insomnia.
This movie feels like not being
able to go to sleep and just like
staring at the fucking ceiling and
the darkness and hearing shit into
weird hours of the night and just
like not being able to fall asleep.
That's what it felt like to me because
you know I used to have that bad when
I was in like middle and high school.
And it's, it's not something I deal
with much anymore, but it was just
like that same unpleasant sensation.
Ben: I get what you're saying,
Kahn, because I feel like, for
me, what kind of evoked was
almost like sleep paralysis demon.
Emily: yeah,
there's a lot of cool, like,
I can see the themes that
they're trying to go for, like.
The idea of being trapped of
your, the things in your life
mysteriously disappearing, just
dealing with people disappearing and,
Bre: not cope knowing how to
cope with it or process it,
especially when you're three
Jeremy: Yeah.
I mean, there was this feeling towards
the middle of the movie, when we
get the scene with the only scene
where we see the parents when they're
on the bed separately, where it's
like, I was like, okay, this house
is haunted by these parents divorce.
That's what this is about.
I got it.
I got it.
And then, it kept going and there
was a like, you know, more of a
real boogeyman sort of situation.
And then it came to another point that
I was like, there's a point where,
Kaylee's had her mouth taken away and
the boy has been, has stabbed himself
in the eye and talked to a 911 operator.
And then he's like, Like, the voice is
directing him up the stairs into another
room, and then all the toys are stuck to
the ceiling in this one spot, and there's
a house there, and I was like, okay,
this is the end of the movie, got it.
Like, I don't, I don't know
why, particularly, but like, that
feels like the end of the movie.
And then there's another,
like, 15 minutes after that.
Bre: Well yeah, it was really clear that
it was like, the parents relationship,
either, you know, she died or she left
or da da da da was clear, but then it
was just like, like, kept watching.
I was like, okay, how are these themes
tying to the children's experience?
And I read one was like, oh,
the children were abused.
And like, I don't know what it's implying,
which parent might have abused them.
But that can tie into like, you know, like
the girl having her mouth removed and.
The kids being told where to go and
then being punished when they're
disobeying, being told to go to
bed as punishment or whatever.
And then the cartoons being like their
one like escape, and their toys too.
But then even the toys and the
TV start to like act weird.
So like, it's almost like implying that
like they don't even have that anymore.
I, I'm not sure, like, even when
those themes are like come to
mind, I'm just like, yeah, but
it wasn't really done well, like.
And then another theory I read was just
the, the little boy falling went into
a coma and this is the process of him,
like, in a coma, like, processing his
abuse and forgetting the faces and names
and details of his home and family.
And I'm like, that's cool, but if you
didn't tell me, I would have not been able
Emily: Yeah.
Bre: myself.
Yeah,
Ben: Yeah, I mean, I'm always down
for a good Jacob's Ladder situation.
Emily: me too, if it was, if, if it was
at all, like, there was anything in the
movie that suggested that, you know,
and, and what it reminded me of, and
I mentioned this earlier is the, the,
the fine art conundrum of like taking
something and trying to obscure it.
So people could read into it,
you know, like, this is, this is,
something that I,
Bre: work.
Emily: yeah, but like, yeah, like, there's
a difference between something that is
Bre: Open
Emily: it's
meaningful.
Yeah, that is that you can interpret
that as meaningful, you know, and
that's the thing I like about sort of
like David Lynch things and surreal
things is that there's, there's.
There is a part of it that you bring to
it, but there is something there that you
can bring something to, you know, and this
movie avoids telling you anything every
way that it can with through through,
like, you everything's an inference
cube, but they try to make it so obscure
that you can't get anything out of it.
And it just reminds me of that,
like, as an illustrator that
went through, like, a fine art.
Program with a lot of, like,
very abstract fine art people.
That was 1 of the things where they,
I was, it just reminded me of the
these artists telling me, like, don't
draw don't don't illustrate, you know,
you have to say something with this.
And then every time I tried to, to
illustrate something and make something
literal, they were like, well, that's
just a, that's just a bear or whatever.
And I'm like, yeah,
Bre: no.
Emily: I mean, it's a bear, but like,
it's doing stuff, but that's the thing is
that it really gets kind of too I don't
want to say pretentious because it's
hard to be pretentious about something
that doesn't really have a lot going on.
Ben: there is, like, where we're supposed
to take that day, if I feel like that,
like, this has been going on for,
like, two years, for almost two years.
Bre: That's the one thing that made me
go, okay, maybe it is the coma theory, or
maybe it is, like, just a creature that
is keeping them in purgatory and abusing
them just because it's a piece of shit.
I mean, but it's also weird because
I'm just like, you've got to just tell
me that, like, you haven't used these
cues at all in the movie and all of a
sudden now we have a, a, a text cue.
Emily: Yeah, we need some kind of
contrast or some kind of thing that,
that gives us a payoff, so we're
like, okay, now I know that I'm
supposed to be paying attention,
Bre: they're just like they're just
like and this they're just like
you think the movie is long for you
These kids been doing this for 500
days, and I'm just like Jesus Christ
Jeremy: Yeah, I know the the text bit with
the days at the end there is well towards
the end It's not at the end because
it's fucking another 15 minutes, like
Ben: right?
I really thought that we're, like,
I really thought that was the end,
and I looked at the timestamp and was
like, well, I know there's not
15 minutes worth of credits, but
Jeremy: that's one of those moments that
like I hate when movies do something
that like they've established a style
and used that style as their sort
of raison d'etre of all their shit.
And then they're just like,
actually, let me do another thing.
Let me just put text on the screen.
And it's just like, I think I think
Inglourious Bastards was a movie that
like irritated me because there's just
a point where they stop and they're
like, We're going to do an entirely
different sort of film here for like
five minutes as we, you know, go
back and recap this, this character.
And then that never happens again.
And like, that's the sort of
thing that should happen multiple
times in a story, if that's the
sort of story you're telling.
And for us to have spent the last hour
staring at the top of a door in a hallway
just for them to then put like, text
on the screen to tell us something.
I was like, well, what the, what the fuck?
Like,
Bre: I really wanted to like
Jeremy: yeah.
And I, I, I mean, that's the
thing for me is like, if there's
a, if this style is, is a choice,
then I feel like I need a reason.
And like, if it's security camera,
like it's found footage, right.
Then it should be pointing
at something like,
Bre: Yes
Jeremy: The, like, I don't mind the
shots of the, like, living room when
you see, like, just, when you're just
seeing the kids, like, feet, right?
When you're just seeing, like, oh,
this is maybe a camera that's at a
weird angle, but it's on a thing.
And, like, that thing is important,
that is part of the story.
Um, as opposed to the long shots
of The upstairs hallway, and
then the downstairs hallway.
That, like, there's no dialogue,
there's nothing happening.
I mean, I feel like you'd cut this
thing down to a real nasty, like,
Un Chien Andalou length, and just,
like, really, it'd be, it would
be a real, like, mindfuck at that
Ben: Yeah.
Emily: Yeah.
And again, that's, there's a
shit ton of that on YouTube.
Ben: I like the ideas of like this,
the alien geometry of the house, that
like the windows and doors are gone,
and then things just like start going
missing, and the lights are failing,
and you just lose more and more to like
darkness, and then just like, the rules
of physics stop applying, like impossibly
stretched hallways, doors, and voids,
like, yeah, like things like,
Bre: But there's never any
explanation for any of it.
That's why I say it's like, I
like the idea of any theory.
Any of these theories could be a
great decision, but none, no decisions
were made at any point, I feel.
I feel like it was just 100
percent up to you, but you have
to, like, make a fanfiction in
your head to make it make sense.
Did
Ben: that's,
that's what it is.
It's like, I like these ideas, but
everything is so close up and out of
focus and grainy filter and weird angles
that like this very interesting ideas
of how this geometry is changing as the
film goes on is never actually shown in
a way for us to have any real, like for
us to even start with, Oh, I understand
what this house is, it's a normal house.
And then things get weirder and
weirder, it, like, it doesn't even
give us a starting place, so like,
everything is just too, no, everything's
just too fuzzy to start with,
Emily: Yeah, it's, it's too monotonous.
And, it starts at the same point
that it ends really, there's no arc.
Bre: I was trying to read what, what Kyle,
you know, had to say about his own movie.
And the one thing that says here
in the Vulture article is like, he
wanted to create a sense of uncanny
apprehension as if Satan directed
a movie and gotten AI to edit it.
So I guess that kind of
explains why it's trash.
Like, I'm sorry, but he
Emily: I mean, I mean, good for him.
Good for that.
Ben: yeah, I'm kinda like, oh,
you, okay buddy, you said it, those
Bre: That's pretty rude to
say about your directorate.
Ben: I'm like, uh,
Emily: But I've seen this.
I've seen this.
It's called the back rooms,
you know.
The backrooms is awesome.
I mean, and I
felt like in the,
Bre: to it.
Emily: yeah, this is just like, and
the backrooms is very evocative and
it has a little, it doesn't have any
dialogue, but it still has payoff
because everything is slightly different.
Things get more and more weird.
Ben: like if the back rooms
was half just like close ups
on a corner of like, a pillar.
Bre: And that's the thing is you, they
needed to decide, like, I just think
that if one or two things were changed
about this movie, like they actually show
characters or the dialogue was better,
then I think it could be stronger.
Even if they don't have a strong
narrative or like actual plot, at
least one, but I think they have
three things that aren't working.
If one of them work, then at
least it would redeem it a bit.
Emily: Yeah.
And yeah, like the, the, a lot of the
YouTube analog horror is as good as it
is because it's only five minutes long.
Bre: Yeah, you can't,
you don't overthink it.
I mean, I thought, like,
also, what are they called?
Alternate reality?
Emily: the AR games
Bre: Yeah, like, that, it would have
been a really cool ARG and also, like,
I don't know, I just, I just wanted
more, like, I'm all up for things
being up for interpretation, but I
just wanted more, like, something
definite, like, what is the story?
Is it, is it psychological?
Is it literal?
Like, at least having that answer
would have made me interested.
Yeah.
Emily: Yeah, I definitely agree.
Bre: And I'm sorry, but what was the
freaking close up with the damn toy?
I don't get it.
Like, the things that show
up, I'm just like Okay?
Am I dumb?
Emily: which, I mean,
there's a few of those
Bre: Okay.
I mean, just the, the, the, the
phone with the, the face change.
I was like, that feels like,
okay, for a movie that's trying
to take itself so seriously, it
felt so damn funny and cheap.
Like, I was just like,
Emily: yeah, that felt,
that did feel like,
Bre: was like, okay,
you've ruined all tensions.
Ben: fuck me for liking the phone face.
Emily: well, no, I thought the
phone face, I liked the phone face.
I don't know, it might have been the same
director, because I know that he also had
a, uh, a YouTube channel of, like, bite
sized nightmares or whatever, which, you
know, I think is probably pretty cool.
Ben: Yeah, like, there's ideas.
I feel like a broken record, because
so much of it just comes down to
like, yeah, this feels like somebody
who made YouTube shorts had to
fucking figure out how to get, like,
Steve: there's, it's like,
Ben: a hundred minute run time.
Steve: it's like you said
earlier, there's a 12 minute
short in here that's really good.
And if you can tell the story within
that amount of time, it would have, it
might have been a better experience.
It just takes so long to get
to anything in this movie.
At least that's how I found it.
Like, I felt like I was on a loop, that
every, every, like, 12 minutes, I would
hear some old timey cartoon music.
Bre: mean, that could be an
immersive aspect because they're
living in a loop, apparently.
If we didn't get it across with
that cartoon that showed you
things disappearing for 35 times,
it was like,
Ben: my god, yeah.
Steve: as somebody with, with like
hardcore ADHD, I found this movie
very hard to stay focused on.
So, like, y'all are bringing up some
stuff that I know that I saw, but I
don't know that it sank in for me.
Ben: really worry that an
executive has Pointed to this movie
specifically in a PowerPoint slide
labeled second screen content.
Emily: Yeah.
It feels like someone gave
the, and this is my roommate's
joke, so shout out to Phoenix.
But it does feel like, the, at the
last minute they took, you know, they
sent the, the file to, um, print,
or whatever, and they're like, Sir!
I'm sorry, but that
was the B roll footage!
Wait, stop!
Like,
Bre: That's what it felt like.
I was like, I feel like this
is all not, this is 100 percent
not what I expected at all.
Like.
I think, give them another chance.
Do it again, this time take your time.
Like, just,
Ben: As far as the premise, I can
tell us is that because it should
be very emotionally affecting
and like, and deeply, like,
disturbing a horrifying, like.
A four year old and a six year
old as children as innocent as
can be trapped in any permanent.
Eternal,
psychological,
physical, torture loop.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: yet my response to
that shouldn't be, I think?
Okay.
Bre: Yeah.
Steve: I think this movie is a great
candidate for if you want to have a
movie, like you're throwing a Halloween
party and you have a projector.
And you want to, like, play this in the
corner over by where people get their
drinks or something, and it's just running
silently with this atmospheric imagery.
You know, projected onto your wall.
I think it's a really good one of those.
Bre: Bro,
Steve: but
I mean, if somebody told me I had
to, I had to sit and watch this
movie again, I'd be very upset.
Ben: Yes.
Bre: I fell asleep.
And like, I think the last 15
minutes I did fall asleep, but
I don't think I missed anything.
Jeremy: I mean, I literally had to
get up and go make some coffee, like,
Steve: Yeah, it felt like if you saw
the first ten minutes of the movie,
you've pretty much seen the whole
movie.
Ben: don't, I don't know if y'all had this
similar experience, but I went in blind
enough that the movie started, and it kept
being not so much a movie as a slideshow.
Bre: Yeah.
Steve: For a half hour, I
actually looked at
the
Ben: I started,
Steve: half hour
before
Ben: started scrolling forward being
like, So when did the opening credits end?
And then just, and then just as the
cursor got deeper and deeper into
the timecode, just being like, Oh!
Emily: Uh Oh
Ben: no!
Emily: the other thing is, with a movie
that is about, like, anticipation and,
you know, something that you feel like
you're supposed to be looking, it's
really punishing you because of all of
the fucking, I'm sorry, I'm getting very
passionate and I'm getting very heated
so I'm gonna, I'm just gonna take a deep
breath.
Bre: this is your heated voice?
Emily: Oh, I'm, well, I can get more
heated but, like, I feel like this
movie doesn't quite deserve it because.
Bre: Ugh.
Emily: The heart was in the right
place, I think, but, you know,
it wasn't offensive well, it was
kind of offensive because all the
flickering, the flickering just was so,
Bre: yeah.
Emily: by the end of
the movie, and I'm like,
don't
hurt me, don't hurt me, movie, I'm
trying to watch you, like, I get that
flickering is part of this, but you
need to like, figure something out
here, because this is so painful,
Bre: Yeah, I've heard someone
say it belongs in a modern
art museum, not a theater.
Emily: yeah, but that's what I've
said, like, with the, the modern
art stuff, like, it was, I guess,
yeah, it is pretentious in that way,
because there is,
Ben: I definitely can see how
there is somebody out there
who this movie is so for.
I'm just not that
Bre: When it comes to aesthetic, it's
kind of like one of those things where
you take a bunch of screenshots, like
Steve said, and it's like, it would
be, it's great vibes, like, I would put
this movie on as my moving wallpaper, if
Steve: Yeah,
100%.
Bre: seasons.
Emily: yeah, like, if I wanted
someone, if I wanted something in
the background that is just slightly
unsettling, but I still feel like
there has to be more like, this is.
Bre: No, I'm not watching it,
Emily: Oh,
yeah, well, in this.
And it's sad because this kind
of movie with this weird, like,
grainy footage and stuff like that,
this is and it's all close ups.
So it should be about detail, right?
Like, it should be about being myopic
and being in the, you know, and that's,
I mean, that's the artist statement of,
of the fine artists that made this movie
is that like, this is about these, these
uncomfortable moments and details and
being disoriented and stuff like that.
But you need more for it, like,
if it's projected on the floor of
somewhere, or if it's projected, like,
upside down, like, you know, that's
enough, I think, for it to be like,
okay, this is an art installation.
Bre: on an old TV.
Emily: Yeah, like, you have it
at,
Bre: room.
Steve: Get
Emily: yeah.
Bre: Yeah,
Emily: CRT TV
Jeremy: You know, how I think this would
work for me almost, and, and, you know,
I know that's not exactly the way movies
are meant to be watched, is like, if
you had all these, like, shots lined up
simultaneously, and it looked like, like
a security camera feed, you know, that
you're, one of these is just looking
at the wall, and then one of these is
looking at the, you know, Legos and the
toys and stuff, and then occasionally,
Like, something happens, something moves
in one of these things, but obviously
cut down on the length of the movie
to have them all going simultaneously.
But then, like, you'd really be, like,
looking back and forth between
the feeds, trying to, like,
Bre: But you'd also need
some actual footage, right?
Like, rather than, like, there would
have to be, like, actual, like, the
skin of Marengo or whatever would
actually have to kind of show up and
actually prove it exists and for half
the time I was just like, Oh, this is
just literally the kid's imagination.
And that's why it's so bad.
It's just because it's supposed to,
like, be like, You remember when you
were a kid and you just thought shit
happened and nothing really was there?
And I was like, yeah, I do.
I don't need to watch it forever.
Emily: yeah, like, it would
be good, again, as a short.
also I'm really mad that the song
never showed up, like, why the
fuck is it called Skinnamarink?
Like,
Bre: is because of the, the, the
song, the Skinny Marine, I love you.
And I was like, I mean, okay,
my brain is doing gymnastics at
this point, but I'm like, if it's
supposed to be about parental abuse.
And the only time I've ever heard
the Skinny Marine song is like
from my mom saying it in love.
I was like, is it juxtaposition?
I don't know.
Emily: Yeah, because I, I remember
asking when I first heard about
the movie, and I'm like, what
is, why is it called Skin Rink?
And a friend of mine was like,
oh yeah, well, I looked it up
and it said, apparently it's
supposed to mean I love you.
And I'm like, that's the song
from Sharon Lewis and Brand.
That's the song.
Ben: feel like they didn't get the
song because the song rights would
have literally tripled the budget.
Emily: Yeah.
And like everything they,
they made sure to mention that
everything was in public domain.
And so that's where I was like,
and they said, you know, in the
beginning where they're like, this
is all the credits public domain.
And I'm thinking
Ben: You knew, I knew exactly what kind
of budget we were dealing with when one of
the top credits was for additional lenses.
Just a guy they knew who had some
extra equipment he let them borrow.
Bre: I'm for crediting everyone.
Emily: Yeah, and all those backers, all
12 of those backers, good, good on them.
Bre: mean, it's really cool that like
a movie like this got to be like, as
known, you know, I, I want more stuff.
Like, I would rather have a, maybe not all
light, maybe better than this movie, but I
still am like so hungry for not Hollywood,
like regurgitated That like, I'm just
like, cool, I'm just grateful you exist,
but you don't get to sit at the table.
Ben: while I
Steve: I love
Ben: not While I don't think it worked
out this time, this movie does embody
what I love about horror, and that is
the only genre where somebody with,
like, pocket change, a basic ass
camera, and their parents house can
make a legitimately successful film.
Bre: I'm happy that the person
this is for, I'm happy that the
person this is for finally has it.
Because There is a, there is an
audience for everything and that
person has been itching for this
niche to be, you know, good for them.
Emily: yeah,
Bre: I'm not in the audience.
It's okay.
Emily: and
yeah and I mean there's a lot of
There's a lot of kids, there's
a lot of like teenagers making
analog horror that's really
Bre: And TikTok.
Emily: zero dollars.
And Tiktok, you know,
like, there's, yeah, there's,
I mean, there's a lot of
really great stuff out there
I mean, we've reviewed Marble Hornets.
A
while ago, yeah, and Marble
Hornets had more going like,
Marble Hornets had a story.
And, you know, at this point, it's
hard, like, it was hard for us
to, those of us who hadn't seen it
before the Slenderman phenomenon
over.
Bre: yeah.
Emily: Yeah, it's hard for us
Ben: It's one of those ones, yeah,
Slenderman's one of those ones
where, like, you, Unfortunately,
you really had to, like, be
there while it was coming out.
Cause part of the appeal was that, wasn't
that, like, Oh, this isn't Blair Witch
Project, which, you know, Still has, like,
a fuckin major film studio promoting it.
No matter how much they act like,
yeah, we just, I'm just a Hollywood
executive who just found some weird
tapes in the woods, So we made a movie
out of it, like, This was A random
guy just with a YouTube, like, an
anonymous person with a YouTube channel
uploading these super creepy ass videos.
Steve: I have to confess, I
totally believed the Blair
Witch thing when it came out.
We, uh, me and a group of my friends,
all partying at my friend Jill's
house, and we caught the, uh,
whatever the TV special was that they
used to, like, prep everybody for
the movie coming out.
Because it was this whole thing of,
like, look at this crazy footage that
we found that somebody put together.
And now they're making a movie
out of it, and it opens on Friday,
so you can see the conclusion, or
whatever, you can see the full story.
And, I mean, we were all partying, we
were all sloshed, but I'll be damned
if I wasn't, like, totally bought in,
and be like, Oh my god, I can't wait
to find out what happens to these kids!
Bre: yeah,
I mean, at the time, that kind
of movie hadn't been out before.
Go
Steve: Uh, it was so amazing, that was
one of the best cinematic
experiences ever in a horror movie.
Emily: I might have told
this story before, but, like,
that's, that's experience.
Was so immersive and I also believed it.
Like I was whole hog in there.
I
Steve: Oh, that's, it's the definition of,
Emily: 17.
Steve: be there.
Ha
ha
Emily: yeah,
Ben: the thing, I'm like, and again,
and this is, I guess, I guess like, it
did work, but I guess my mind just goes
to it's like, Well, either they made a
movie that they're like, pro res, that
they're kayfabing us on, or Lionsgate
is about to release a snuff film.
Emily: right?
Right?
Well, and that was the other thing
is I remember I was out, like, I was
touring the Pacific Northwest at that
point, like, looking at colleges and
stuff and that the special came out
and I watched it and it was like.
Before, like, it's back when people
thought alien autopsy was like a thing.
You know, like I remember like people
thinking alien autopsy was like legit
and because it was on, it was on like
network television.
Okay, but, um, but yeah, and then
when I saw it in the theater, I
didn't I didn't realize that it was.
Not.
A work of fiction until I read the
credits and it was like, this is a
work of fiction and I was like, oh,
Ben: No real aliens were
harmed in the making of this
Bre: They're just like, how disappointing.
Emily: well, it was, it was
actually relieving for me because
I came out of that theater.
Like, I've never come out of a theater
shaking and I came out of that theater
fucking shaking and it was so, like,
it was the most scared I'd ever been
from a movie in my life and it was
so like, It was incredible because
I was also like, I was, it was only
playing in one theater in Seattle
and I was by myself and I was like,
um, yeah, but it was fine.
And, but that was like, you know, I'm
a full, like, I'm almost 18 years old
and that night I was with my folks
and I'm like, hey, uh, I can't sleep.
I feel like I'm 8
and I can't fucking sleep and I'm in
this weird house that, you know, like,
we were house sitting for people and
it was like, this weird house house.
And I was, I just remember, like.
It felt like a Skin of Marink
movie in my brain, you know, like
everything was just, I was having
like a panic attack the whole time.
Bre: I truly cannot remember the last
time I was that scared with the movie,
but I do remember when I was a child,
one movie that surprisingly really
scared the shit out of me was the land
before time where they have to cross
Ben: No, that's fucking legit.
Bre: I was on
Steve: Tree
Bre: and I was like, I was like, I
don't want my feet to get eaten, bro.
Ben: I'm traumatized by Little, by like,
Littlefoot's mom's death to this day.
Emily: so much of that movie is so sad,
Steve: That was my Bambi's mom moment.
Bre: Yeah.
Ben: Oh, Bandy's mom is
nothing next to Littlefoot's
Emily: Oh, no!
Littlef watches the light
leave his mother's eyes.
Like, Bambi Bambi, like Baby hears a
bang and then, like, someone sits down
with him and is like, I'm sorry, son, I
have some really, uh, tough news for you.
And then he grows up and gets over
it, but, like, because his dad is,
you know, his nepotism, I guess,
Ben: I'm all about, though, the
straight to VHS sequels, where
it's like, Land Before Time 9,
They make a dinosaur baseball team!
Bre: I remember when the, the
dinosaur Scrappy Doo happened.
Ben: They did.
It was a little baby T Rex,
yes!
Yes, it was very scrappy, too.
Emily: I don't, I
Bre: A little more
loving.
Emily: But,
Bre: he had a big ol head.
Steve: All I remember is Sarah and Petrie.
Ben: Yes.
Emily: I
Jeremy: That's some fucking
McDonald's toys with
Steve: Ducky, that was the other one.
Oh, Ducky
was so cute.
Ben: I recommend Land Before Time.
Bre: Right.
Jeremy: Don't, it's tragic.
Bre: Hey, this is a movie about children
losing their, like, innocence, okay?
That was me.
I thought my feet were gonna get
Ben: What this movie does do a good job.
Again, that is Ben kind of hampers with
lingering on every fucking shot and
nothingness is that it does capture
the sense of like helpless confusion
of Like the small children that it's
like normally you're like, okay.
Well, the protagonist
is gonna do something.
It's like They're four and six
There's nothing to be done.
They are beyond defenseless.
Jeremy: it's unclear what they're
seeing and what, what of this they're
actually dealing
Ben: what I'm seeing.
It's an
Jeremy: the voice.
Yeah, I, you know, I was gonna, we
were talking about movies that were
like traumatic as, as kids, and I
was thinking about The Land Before
Time and the trauma of watching that
depressed horse die in the, Swamp
in the Neverending Story and I
was like, that's kind of what
watching this movie felt like, is
being the depressed horse sinking
Steve: Oh no, is that
Artax?
Jeremy: Yes, Artax Artax
the depressed horse.
Ben: That should go on the fucking poster.
Emily: Artex is you.
Bre: I feel bad for saying that I think
that Skinnery could have benefited from
being cooler to the child protagonists.
Like, and I don't mean that
because I want to see child pain.
I just mean, like, it's not
very clear that anything other
than child boredom is happening.
Emily: Yeah,
Bre: I'm like, okay.
I mean, I was, I was afraid to
see them being tortured by this
entity or, or whatever, but really
it just seems like go to bed.
I'm like, no, I don't
want to watch cartoons.
that's
Ben: It's like,
even when it's like, I guess we're
supposed to interpret that like, the
blood on the ceiling over and over
again is supposed to be torture.
Emily: Maybe?
Bre: Sure.
I mean, yeah, it's blood.
Ben: Again, we also don't know it's
not just like, the entity just like,
splashing a bucket being like, Look this!
Bre: Yeah, it's clear because
it's, it's blood, but I'm like,
okay, like what's happening?
Like, so the kid is stabbing
themselves in the face?
I wouldn't know because I haven't seen
Beyond the Children's fucking Knees.
Like, I don't know.
Oops.
There
Jeremy: about being a kid in the
90s is having the one VHS tape
of off brand cartoons that your
grandma bought you at the big lots.
Like, it's just that kind of
like, oh, this shitty cartoon.
Well,
this is
Ben: you know, I, I
think I figured it out.
I think I figured out what
this movie feels like.
If a little kid watched a horror
movie, and that movie gave them
nightmares, and now they're trying to
describe those nightmares back to you.
Bre: you go.
Okay.
Emily: You know, it's like
when I, when you, when you
have a dream, when you, when I,
when you, you,
have a, when you,
have a dream, and you can
Jeremy: And I
saw, I saw my sister, but she
didn't have any, any mouth or eyes.
Bre: It's like, oh, it's okay.
She definitely does.
Ben: This movie is what you have to
like, this movie is the price you
pay for showing Babadook to a kid.
Jeremy: the voice told me to look
under the bed, but then there
wasn't anything under the bed.
But then you were on the
bed, and you were, you
told me something, I don't remember.
And I looked under the bed, and
you were gone, and mom was there.
And she said to look at the closet, and
the closet had a hand that came out of it.
Bre: you know what was a
scarier movie than this?
Holy Mountain.
Emily: Holy, well, Holy Mountain was
fucking, well, Holy Mountain, you
watched a man shit in a can, and I was
like, it like, actually happened, and
I'm like, I'm, I'm scared of myself
that I'm a person that watched this.
That's,
Ben: so if we ever do that movie
on the podcast, I'm busy that week.
Bre: I want to talk about that.
Emily: I would love to talk,
it's not really a horror movie
Bre: It's not,
Emily: it's,
Bre: a scary experience.
Emily: yeah, no, it was definitely
not a movie to watch while you were
going through, like, chronic anxiety,
but, like, yeah, it's an interesting film
Ben: That's my secret,
Emily: great,
Ben: always anxious.
Emily: I mean, that was, that was
my secret then, but now I'm like,
you know, I mean, there's some,
there's some really cool imagery.
There's like a, a guy with makeup on
half his face and he has tits that are
ocelot mouths and they spray blood on you
Bre: Visually, it was so cool though,
but I'm not gonna I'll talk forever
Ben: That's, uh, I'm not gonna
lie, that sounds dope as fuck.
Bre: I
Emily: that's only like
a small part of it.
Bre: yeah.
I have to ask, how dark are
the movies that y'all are
gonna cover on this podcast?
How dark are y'all gonna go?
Like, are y'all ever gonna go,
like, human centipede dark?
Emily: Human centipede is a
Ben: Great
Bre: Not Jeremy moving
Jeremy: I'm not sure the human
centipede has the like content to
be redeeming for us to talk about?
Like I have, I've played around with
the idea of talking about shit like
Ben: guys, what does human
centipede have to say about class?
Bre: Got you, got you.
Ben: What can we learn about,
what can we learn about wealth
inequality from the human centipede?
Jeremy: we're all in this economy, the
third person in the human centipede.
That's, that's
Emily: trickle down
economics, Yeah, like the
Jeremy: Trickle down economics.
Emily: the
exploitation, kind of movies, those
are ones that, I mean, in terms of,
like, gore, like, torture porn and, and
Ben: I feel like that we can, we
can rephrase this as will we be
covering the work of Eli Roth.
Emily: who knows,
Bre: I'm just saying, there are a
couple of horror movies I saw that I
was traumatized by but weren't very
Jeremy: I mean, I'm not
particularly interested in talking
about hostile for one thing.
Like, does hostile have
something to say about class?
Yes, but it's not very deep.
know,
Emily: Antichrist has some things to say.
I would love to to talk about
the themes of Antichrist.
I don't know if I want to watch it again.
Jeremy: yeah, I don't particularly
want to subject this to a Serbian film.
Bre: Um, yeah.
Steve: Not a fan of the Gorno, huh?
Jeremy: I don't, I mean, I'm
sure there's a lot to say about
I spit on your grave, but I'm not
sure I want to go that direction.
Bre: Well, there you go.
Emily: I do.
I, I say I will watch Spit on
Your, I Spit on Your Grave just to
Jeremy: Yeah.
I mean, that's right there with, you
know, Last House on the Left, which
is like, it's a rough thing to to ask
somebody to watch and to talk about.
So,
Bre: but you're not, but
you give people an option.
You don't say like, Bri, you're coming on
and you're going to watch fricking Serbian
Ben: we just gotta
find, yeah, like, we just gotta find
the right people that are like, Hold
up, you guys, you want me to talk
about like an hour and a half of
torture porn that is also like, Deeply,
like, has deep political themes?
Hell
Bre: My mom had me watch, not had
me, but offered me to watch I Spit
on Your Grave at like age 12, okay?
Like, I'm gone.
My brain's mush.
ruined.
Emily: Did you, did you watch it?
Bre: Yes.
Emily: Oh, okay.
Jeremy: Yeah, I
I feel like we have traditionally sort of
drawn the line at like, rape heavy horror.
Like, it's just not, I mean, there's
been a couple of instances now where
we've like, there've been movies,
not unlike this situation, but
very different in different ways.
Where like, we were like, inviting
somebody on and it's like, hey, we
heard good things about this fucking
movie where a woman fucks a car.
Like, this'll be fun.
Uh, just.
Just for it
Ben: We're we're allowed,
we're allowed to say Teton.
Good.
Good.
Okay.
Steve: is that good?
I
Ben: was, worried we
were dancing around it.
But
Emily: It's,
Ben: Teton isn't really on
a spectrum of good and bad.
Bre: Tatan?
Steve: Is it worth watching?
Emily: I say it.
I mean, do you wanna
see a woman fuck a car?
Steve: I mean, who doesn't?
Emily: It's
Jeremy: There
is
Bre: this.
Ben: It's a woman who fucks a car.
That also is a lot about the
masculinity of aging firefighters.
Jeremy: yeah.
It
also contains the longest
scene of somebody, like, beating them,
like, breaking their own nose and
messing themselves up to, like, try
and evade police capture, which is,
like, that, that scene still is one
to me that I'm just like, oh, God.
Emily: yeah.
There's a lot of really
difficult scenes in that movie.
Ben: It's
Jeremy: Raw, Steve?
Steve: I seen what?
Jeremy: Raw?
It's, uh, same director but they're
both pretty wild and rough in some
places, but Raw, yeah, Raw we still
need to talk about at some point, but
Ben: Teton has a lot going on.
And to like, there's pregnancy themes,
there's trans mass themes, there's
male bonding themes, there's so
much, there's car fucking themes, and
Steve: keep saying that and
I, all I can see is like some
gear shift action or maybe some
tailpipe action.
Ben: Yeah,
Steve: Okay.
Okay.
Ben: there, you're there!
and I have no idea how it all connects.
Emily: She fucks the Guy Fieri of cars.
Steve: do they sit on
it and it disappears?
Like what
happens?
Emily: it
I don't know what, I
Ben: It's more about
Emily: specifically.
Ben: rumble.
Yeah!
Emily: I can't
Steve: like a, uh, what
the hell are they called?
Sivian or something
Jeremy: involve the
car being in this heavy S& M too, so.
Steve: All right.
Emily: Yeah, it's, I can't remember
what the, like, if there was, like,
depicted penetration with the gear shift,
but there
Jeremy: think there is implied
penetration with the gearshift.
I don't think it
Emily: Yes.
Jeremy: depicted.
Emily: I don't think it is, literal.
Ben: Well, I guess just to try to see
us all process that shit in real time.
Emily: Yeah.
Bre: tomorrow while
Jeremy: Sorry.
Sorry again to T.
Franklin.
Emily: Yes.
Sorry, T.
Thank you, T.
You're our hero.
Ben: So, is Skinnamarie feminist?
Emily: Sharon, Lois, and Bram.
Sharon and Lois were both women, right?
Steve: What?
Jeremy: I don't know what the situation
is with Sharon, Lois, and Bram.
I don't know
Steve: I believe so.
I know Bram was the bearded dude
that looked like my friend's dad
when I was growing up.
Emily: the
bearded dude.
So I think Sharon
and
Jeremy: I
Steve: Kevin
Kevin Fitzsimmons.
Jeremy: Dead!
I
Ben: So, so, if you're wondering
what they look like, you know, they
look like Steve's friend's dad.
That should help you, the listener.
Emily: That's just Bram.
Sharon and
Steve: Look, they hung
out with an elephant.
good times.
Emily: Yeah, and they sang a song.
Steve: Yeah, they
sang a song, people followed
them around the park.
Wasn't creepy at all.
Emily: Okay, so, just real quick,
y'all, I just need to explain this
joke, because I'm old, and back
in the 80s and apparently early
90s, the program block Nick Jr.
on Nickelodeon had a series
of television programs,
Steve: Yes.
Ben: Nick Jr.
Emily: yeah, they, they were not
programs and They were odd, but
endearing, one of which was the variety
show, Sharon Lois and Bram's Elephant
Show, which was basically like a Mr.
Rogers neighborhood, but instead of
being in one room, they would like, go
different places and have little bits,
and it was, it was like a variety show,
but it was like a tour variety show,
and they had a big person in an elephant
suit, and like a mascot furry suit,
and Like, going around and doing funny
things, and their theme song at the end
of every show was Skidamarinky dinky
dink, Skidamarinky doo, I love you, and
apparently the Skidamarinky dinky dink
is from a musical, I can't remember
which musical, but that part of it is
lifted from the musical that it's from.
What does it have to do with
this movie other than the title?
Fuck all.
But I think that since the movie
named itself after that song, there's
nothing else that I can think of.
That that gives me any idea of
what the movie is trying to invoke.
So, that's that's why I
keep making this joke.
Thank you.
I don't think the movie's feminist
because in order to be feminist,
it needs to have characters.
Bre: I was wondering when we were
like, I was like, what are the
themes that we're criticizing?
I was just like, child abuse?
I don't know.
Ben: Charlie's question mark
Jeremy: Is there mental illness in this?
Bre: Maybe?
Jeremy: Seemingly trauma, definitely.
I mean, this definitely does not
have anything to do with race.
We honestly have no idea what
race anybody is in this movie.
not to mention that we don't
really know what it's about.
So,
Emily: Yeah,
Bre: not a race, Yeah
Jeremy: How
does this movie deal with class?
Uh, not much.
I mean, they are
I think, decidedly lower middle class
Ben: He wants toys.
I don't
Bre: I mean, the thing is, if we knew a
little bit more about the characters, then
maybe we could have that conversation.
Because maybe if it was a story about
domestic abuse or child abuse, and it
was because the parents were stressed
because of their financial situations,
then maybe that would be a conversation.
Emily: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I can see this
story being about, kids dealing with.
Some kind of situation where
they were losing resources
because things keep disappearing,
like the toilet, you know, and so, like,
that, that I could see being about class
and being about and this is me going on
a very large tangent, like, 1 of these
theories, but this is like, these kids
could have been in a situation where their
parents were you Having financial trouble,
but they didn't want the kids to know and
they didn't talk to the kids about it.
So there was this sort of.
this, yeah, there was a lack of
understanding and there was also
this sort of sense of dread.
Like, there was something wrong,
but they didn't know what it was.
And then things that keep losing things
like water and food and and doors.
And,
I
don't know how that has to do with
toys being glued to the wall, but.
Jeremy: I genuinely, I genuinely think
there's an argument to be made that this
movie is not necessarily a narrative
about, but processing trauma of a kid who,
I mean, like me, was a, you know, poor,
like, latchkey kid, they were, you know,
at home alone, at night occasionally, or,
you know, during the day even, and like,
when you don't have your parents around,
and you, you know, should probably have
parents around, like, some shit happens,
and some weird shit goes on, and this
feels like, Somebody processing that
trauma 30 years later, but like, uh, not
in a way that narratively makes sense.
Emily: yeah, but
that's a good call because, like,
the Lasky kid thing is definitely
a thing in in this movie because
the kids are by themselves and they
have to take care of themselves.
Bre: Yeah, I can appreciate that.
Emily: I don't remember that
from Sharon, Lois, and Bram.
Steve: Yo, how terrifying
is that photograph?
Jeremy: Nothing
strange
Bre: saw
Emily: I really hate that.
I hate that so
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean,
I I think the biggest
Ben: thank you for this creepy crowd
Jeremy: the argument for what, what the
name could even mean to me is just, like,
there's a situation where things that
are meant to be reassuring when you're
in the dark, when you're alone, can
sometimes be, you know, the creepy things.
And it doesn't say that it seems sort of
cheap to have, uh, sort of a name brand
to that feeling without paying any sort
of actual homage to it in the movie.
Bre: Yeah.
Emily: Yeah, yeah,
Jeremy: yeah,
I don't know.
Bre: so, so we've kind of come to
the conclusion that if it's gonna
be as long as it was, then we really
need more, but for the vibes, it
would have been, it's fine as it
is, but could have been shorter.
Ben: Yup.
Bre: Yeah, okay.
Jeremy: yeah, I would be much
happier with it at half an hour.
I think, you know,
Ben: yeah, and again, like, I, I
really just wish there was something
thematic I could really sing, I could
really wrap my hands around rather
than having to turn to like, you know,
the, to like, yeah, reddit, reddit for
Emily: yeah.
I mean, just read Creepypastas.
You know?
Ben: I do, I, I love a good,
like, horror creepypasta.
Man, that original liminal
space is creepypasta?
Ooh, that's a good, that's a,
that's a good short horror.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: yeah, I mean, I guess generally
it sounds like we probably wouldn't
recommend this one to people, right?
Bre: No,
Ben: Ooh,
Bre: one of those things where it's
like, watch it for the experience
if you have nothing better to do,
and friends who can tolerate being
bored for like 45 minutes straight.
If you just want to say you've
seen it, and I would recommend
literally anything else.
Jeremy: I imagine trying to
watch this without having
like absolute darkness either.
Like, cause you know, I'm just watching
it in my, in my living room with
all the lights off and everything.
So it makes it hard to do much else.
Bre: Yeah.
Jeremy: Watch it, but
Bre: I don't think it's really, I'm
not going to watch it ever again.
Ben: yeah.
Steve: No.
Emily: need to.
Jeremy: until Skidamarinkydoo comes out.
Emily: That one better fucking
have Sharon Lois and Bram in it.
I'm just saying.
Steve: those Raggedy Ann
and Andy Clown things
that
Ben: Oh no, I hope that, I truly
hope it's like they do, like, a
Skin of Meringue 2, but like, in the
style of, like, Blair Witch Project
2.
Bre: you, they, I welcome
them to try again.
I
Ben: Completely unrelated, now
looking more like a CW pilot.
Emily: yeah.
So is there something we would Recommend.
Jeremy: Yeah.
What do we have to recommend?
Ben: Not specifically, but like you
said, Emily, there are so many great
analog horror, like, YouTube shorts,
TikToks, there's people doing really
interesting, exciting things in the
genre, making lots of compelling videos,
so, I guess I'm just recommending the
concept of short form analog horror?
Bre: Yeah, I just go Onto TikTok and look
up the backrooms and just scroll through
that and be kind of funny and scary.
Emily: Yeah, there's, there are
the, I would look up the back
rooms and then there's a couple
channels I would absolutely look up.
There's Gemini Home Entertainment and
Local 58, which are both really great,
weird, analog horror, same kind of
deal, but they have stuff going on.
There's also a pretty good,
video called Thomas the Train by.
Why Nakajima just type in Thomas
the Train Roomba and you'll find
it and it's, it's really good.
Bre: I'm terrified.
Emily: See if I can, I
can put it in the chat.
Steve: I've got some
podcast recommendations
that people might want to check out
if they liked the vibes of this.
Anybody here ever hear
of the Magnus Archives?
Emily: Yes,
this reminded me of that
of a few episodes of that.
For sure, yes.
Steve: Yeah, it's, uh, for people
that don't know, it's, uh, like an
anthology series that eventually ties
together into an overarching narrative
of, like, really esoteric and weird
stories all very well acted and
narrated and very atmospheric and super
creepy super high production design.
just an overall joy to listen to.
And then the other one that I would
recommend that has become extraordinarily
popular, uh, since it came out is,
uh, the BBC's Uncanny podcast with
Danny Robbins and Evelyn Hollow.
It is well, you know.
Buddy ears, real stories of real hauntings
and real supernatural experiences from
around the world people being, like,
telling their stories, being interviewed
years later, them actually going to the
sites and researching things and looking
for evidence and everything like that
again, really, like, well produced.
There's a television show about it
now they're doing a tour, uh, of
it, and I've been listening to it
for three seasons, and it is, yeah.
It's the thing that when I go out
walking at night, it's what I listen to
to creep myself out while I'm walking
around the neighborhood at like midnight.
Bre: I'm sorry, that already
as an experience is something
I've never related to.
To walk at night, to walk at night
and then to further make it scarier.
Steve: Oh, I do it all the time.
I do it all the time.
That's, like, that's my thing.
Wait till you see You know what?
I'm gonna send, I'm gonna send
you a photo of super quick story.
I
was
walking, I was walking one night in
my neighborhood, and I look up into a
window, and it looks like there's a person
in the window as I'm listening to this
podcast, and so I'm already freaked out.
I'm looking at this thing in the
window, and I'm like, what is that?
And I'm walking Past it, and as I'm
walking past it, it looks like one of
those paintings that, like, there's
an optical illusion that it looks
like the eyes are following you as
you walk past it, and the closer I
look at it, it's like Jack Palance
in his City Slickers cowboy attire,
like, pointing at you in the window.
It's a standee.
Like, it's a, it's a cardboard standee of
a cowboy that somebody purposefully put
in their window to freak me the fuck out.
And I took a picture of it,
and I could send it to you.
It was terrifying.
I was listening to this podcast when I
saw it, and my, my imagination went wild.
Emily: Good, good for them.
Bre: Jesus Christ.
This
Steve: It was something else.
I'm gonna see if I can find the
picture while you guys talk.
Bre: is
Jeremy: boy.
Ben: any other, uh,
Recommendations tonight?
Jeremy: on the podcast front, like I, I
do second Steve's, uh, Magnus Archives.
Magnus Archives is great.
Uh, we've obviously talked quite a bit
about some other podcasts, including our,
our Bud's over at Old Gods of Appalachia.
If you haven't listened to, uh, Alice
Isn't Dead, which is, you know, finished.
It's a finished story in a podcast.
that one is definitely worth checking out.
There's a, there's a lot of other,
scary horror stuff out there.
Black Tapes, I think, is a really similar
vibe to maybe what they're going for here.
doesn't always quite work.
The, Black Tapes is really good
at doing, like, uh, the, the one
episode stories that really hit,
but then having an overall arcing
narrative that doesn't quite work.
Emily: Yeah.
Bre: there's a game that I recently
started watching a few playthroughs.
It's called Fears to Fathom.
And it's episodic, so
each one is different.
Like, the first one is like you're
left home alone as a kid, and you
have to essentially not, like,
not get caught by an intruder.
It's really slow paced.
It's not very, like, it's pretty creepy.
The second one is like you're, and they're
all based off of true stories that people
wrote in, apparently, and survived.
So your goal is to survive the
night or to survive the experience.
The second one was like a person traveling
at night and they stop at a hotel and
like, there's another person who's staying
there that's trying to get into your
hotel and trying to get you to trust them.
And then, yeah, so a couple of
those have been pretty spooky.
And they're not, they don't, they don't
cost a lot of time to, to experience.
Emily: Cool.
Steve: Go play Alan Wake 2.
Jeremy: I
haven't played any of
the Alan Waite games.
That's
Steve: Oh, it's fantastic.
Ben: I hear it's wonderful.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Steve: a good time.
Jeremy: I would also say on the, uh,
you know, if you want something that
has sort of that found horror feel I
also recently watched and really enjoyed
Deadstream if you haven't seen that yet,
it's a, I believe, I want to say it's
Australian, I don't remember completely,
but it's about a guy who's sort of,
Bre: Oh,
Jeremy: don't, they, they don't cover
the whole reason that the guy is sort
of a disgraced YouTuber type and, uh, is
trying to, like, I Get some followers and
credibility back by going to spend the,
you know, the night in a haunted house.
And of course, as you would
imagine, things go poorly.
Um,
Bre: I just,
Emily: Bri?
Bre: No.
Yeah, I just, I looked it up and I saw
like a screenshot and I was like, Ew,
Jeremy: no, the, the cover of Deadstream.
Yeah.
On IMDb.
Bre: It
looks interesting.
Jeremy: yeah, it's a definitely
like a found horror comedy mix.
Cause like, you kind of, this is a
guy you don't really feel bad for it.
Especially if you've watched much YouTube
and you know, you know, these types of
guys.
Yeah, the live streaming type dudes.
Yeah, That one's definitely
worth checking out.
I'm pretty sure that's on shutter still.
Bre: I
Jeremy: pick that up for sure,
which is the same place you find
skidamarine most of the time.
So I,
Steve: I just posted these pictures
to Twitter because I have no
other way to send them to myself.
I'm going to quickly save them
and then send them to the chat.
Emily: Okay.
Steve: Don't mind me.
Jeremy: uh, I think that's it
for us with recommendations.
Bri, would you like to let
people know where they can find
you outside of this podcast?
Bre: I've been mostly active on
Instagram right now just 'cause
everywhere else has been like a mess.
And you can find me at NDGO Arts, like
Indigo Arts or you can just go to my
website, Brie Indigo, the word indigo.com.
Yeah, that's about it for me.
Jeremy: Fantastic.
what about you, Steve?
Steve: So over at Talking Comics, we
are starting our, uh, best of the year
podcasts, uh, real soon, and, uh, pretty
much all of December is gonna be, uh,
separate presentations from all the
members of our team talking about their
favorite comics throughout the year.
By the way, it is not Jack
Palance in these photographs,
but tell me that's not freaky!
Yeah, lots of stuff going on at
Talking Comics.
Lots of end of the year celebrations
before we take our break into 2024.
And, uh, thanks a lot for
having me this episode.
Bre: Yeah,
Emily: Being here.
Thank you
Jeremy: Thanks for weathering the storm.
I know what I talked to you
yesterday, you were like, I don't
think I'm gonna make it through this.
Steve: Look, I really held my tongue
throughout this thing tonight.
I I have a list of movies that I
would, I would never subject myself
to again, and I have to say, this
is definitely making that list.
Bre: It's
not even really one that
I would recommend either.
Like, if someone's like, oh,
like, it's so bad, it's good.
No,
Steve: I really hoped for better things.
I love to go into things blind.
I never really regret watching anything.
I just wish that I had, I wish that
it had made better use of my time.
Bre: felt that,
Jeremy: Not
Bre: felt that.
Steve: Potential,
atmosphere, great audio design, like
a lot of, a lot of positive things
going for it, especially with, you
know, the budget that was used.
It just, it just,
Bre: I don't think that that's a
flex when it didn't come out good.
Like, I think that like, I would have just
been like, I said before, I was just like,
okay maybe next time, take your time.
Don't, don't rush it in a night.
Ben: what doesn't make El Mariachi good is
that Robert Rodriguez made it for 7, 000.
It was that he made a, he
made it good on 7, 000.
Emily: Yes.
Bre: Otherwise it's
just a waste of 7, 000.
Jeremy: 7, 000 goes a lot further in
1980s Mexico than it does, you know, now.
Um,
Emily: Yes.
Yeah, very good
point.
Jeremy: uh, Emily, where can
people, uh, find you online?
Emily: Well, I'm on mega moth.net.
That is just my, my card that will
tell you where to find me other places.
But my preferred places to be found
Instagram mega underscore Moth and
Patreon Mega Moth on Patreon slash
Mega Moth or however that works.
So yeah.
Bre: Oh yeah, I forgot about Patreon.
Emily: Yeah.
Sign up, there's free tiers
now, so you can sign up for,
watch, watch me on Patreon, but
first, you gotta sign up for the
Progressively Horrified Patreon.
do
it,
Bre: do it, do it.
Jeremy: Do it!
And, about you?
Ben: Yeah, you can find me.
Uh, online, Instagram, blue Sky,
Ben Conn writes Ben Conn comics.
Uh, ben conn comics.com.
And you can, uh, sign up for my
newsletter at ben conn.substack.com.
Jeremy: And I
Ben: And, uh, oh, and check out, sorry.
Uh, captain Laser Hawk out
January, 2024 from Tokyo Pup.
Jeremy: Yeah, and, uh, I am
jerome58 on Twitter and Instagram.
I am Jeremy Whitley on
Blue Sky and Tumblr.
I am jeremywhitley.
com as well, where you can check out
all my stuff, uh, including Dog Night
and including, uh, the newly released
School for Extraterrestrial Girls
Volume 2 from Jimmy Noguchi and I and
the upcoming Cold Ever After, which
is coming from Titan with myself and
Megan Wong that's gonna be awesome.
I hope y'all pick it up and enjoy it,
Bre: Yeah.
Jeremy: And then, uh, the
podcast is, uh, same place.
It always is.
It's on Patreon, progressively horrified.
It's on Twitter at Prague Horror Pod.
You can also follow us at,
progressively horrified Transistor fm,
and we would love to hear from you.
And we would love it if you
rate and review this wherever
you're listening to it.
That helps more people find the podcast,
which helps us make more podcasts.
Thanks to again for, uh, Steve and
Brie for, for joining us for the,
the Daunting task that is this film.
Steve: It was a good time.
Emily: It's a
Steve: always, it's always
fun talking with you.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Well, we'll get you another
Resident Evil next time, Steve.
Bre: Yeah.
Emily: There's
Steve: As long as it's not Apocalypse,
the one that I said was the better
movie, and then I watched about
five minutes of it, it was like, oh,
whoops, oh no, that's a, that's a
racism right there, that's not good.
Bre: Oh, no.
Emily: Oh dear
Steve: Yeah,
Jeremy: All right.
Thank you as always to Ben and Emily
and to all of you for joining us.
And until next time, stay horrified.
Clap.